Ravenloft, as I've stated before on the blog, is easily my favorite official D&D setting. That said, I think it has got some issues that are easily fixed for my purposes by "remixing" the setting by emphasizing the cool stuff, minimizing the lame parts, and adding a bit of my own view of the Gothic to it.
Here are some main areas I want to tackle:
1) The Mists -- as utilized in the Ravenloft, the Mists represent the worst of the 2e adventure railroad syndrome hard-coded into the setting. The Mists swallow up your character, deposit you at the adventure site, and if you try and walk away from the quest they just keep spitting you out on the railroad tracks. Nope, not on my watch. In my version of Ravenloft the Mists are just a spooky bit of atmosphere. "Sealing the borders" is also getting the axe.
2) Scale -- Ravenloft is too small-scale for my tastes. I'd rather it have sprawling metropolises mixed in with the ramshackle villages and towns; I want it to be a place that has both bustling urban areas and isolated wilderness locales.
3) The Supernatural is Not Necessarily Hidden -- the inhabitants of Ravenloft should realize that they live in a haunted land. Instead of having the folk behave irrationally, as when they never seem to piece it together that this Strahd fellow that rules Barovia never ages and is "replaced" periodically by an identical guy, it's actually a bit more poignant for them to know that they are ruled by a tyrannical vampire. After all, there's not much they can do about that. That said, there will be supernatural and occult dealings that are not common knowledge; these will be uncovered in play.
4) Schemes > Back-story -- I hate the way the Dark Lords are presented in Ravenloft; each one has an over-long back-story that rarely features any gameable information. Instead of having the Dark Lords' interesting bits happen in the past, have them happen in the present by making them active, scheming elements of the world. Give them plans that the characters can get mixed up in and potentially foil.
5) Ravenloft should be Navigable and Geographical -- no more of this "you can only get there through the Mists" nonsense. Ravenloft will instead be a place with known geographical borders and set routes. If you want to sail to Souragne, you get on a ship and do that instead of arriving there mysterious through the Mists. I'm not huge on "verisimilitude," but Ravenloft should feel like a world in motion rather than the exercise of a GM's whim.
6) Use Any Monsters You Want -- Ravenloft usually comes with a list of "Gothically-approved" monsters. Screw that, use whatever monsters you want--just describe them in a horrific way. If you can't figure out how to describe a bog-standard green dragon as a primordial horror from the heart of the unconquered pagan forest...you need to learn more words, son.
In the weeks to come I will present my remix of each of the main domains of Ravenloft done in my Precis, Conspectus format. Feel free to riff off these and make suggestions as we go along. However, canonical arguments will be mocked as tedious and boring.
I actually like the Mists a lot and would not axe them. They should still be able to transport your characters throughout the world and to adventures. What should be axed is the railroad factor - perhaps a random table, where you have a good chance of getting lost, being transported to some place in the known world and a small chance of getting transported to an hitherto unknown, isolated space.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I foresee is that if the Mists do what you suggest the player will never choose to enter them anyway...and if they do, you better hope you've got the location they end-up in prepped or you're going to have to run things on the fly. It would work if you approached Ravenloft as a kind of wacky hexcrawl I guess? (Now that I think about it why have I never seen a hex map of Ravenloft...)
DeleteWell, you could always make the Mists a random encounter in this case. They do not approach on the GM's whim, but there is a chance of them whenever a random encounter occurs.
DeleteYou know, a random encounter table for the Mists is a great idea...especially if it only has monsters on it that you will only ever find coming out of the Mists...hmm.
Delete"random encounter table for the Mists... (with) ..monsters on it that you will only ever find coming out of the Mists"
DeleteThat was exactly how I did it, and it seemed to work great. Instead of groaning when The Mists show up, the players shit their pants whenever they see fog.
That's the first thing I changed in the Realm of Terror box, was the nature of the mists. Dropping the whole border crap, I just shoehorned them into homebrew random monster tables; instead of encountering a wight, you might get zapped to the other side of the continent (which, yeah, was *way* too small).
ReplyDeleteHmm, I see what you're saying, but I still think it would be a major pain in the DM's ass to have characters being randomly transported to the other side of the continent.
DeleteAre you going to replace Strahd with the sexy vampire lady in pumps above? 'Cause that would be an improvement.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, though these seem like sensible changes, though if I was writing it for others, I'd still suggest gothicky monsters.
What about tech level? Are you keeping in D&D standard? I think I'd have a tendency to go vaguely 19th century (like the Gothic Earth, and the best seasons of Dark Shadows--though 1890s is a bit late--maybe late 18th early 19th?).
I like to think that there is room for both Strahd and the vampire in pumps! I would keep Strahd in the background because he's kind of a cliche (but a fun cliche); I plan for the big villain to be a non-Dark Lord who is just as evil, just not as well known.
DeleteI think I tend to use most Gothicky monsters anyway just out of force of habit (it will surprise no one that my games are undead heavy), but I just think it's silly that the setting says NO ORCS ALLOWED! Orcs can be pretty messed up...in fact, I have a picture to post on just that very topic...
I kinda like that the default tech level in Ravenloft is a mash-up that ranges from dark ages to Victorian. I'd keep that, but then again I'm not worried at all about verisimilitude in that sense.
More room for Strahd in pumps I think! ... sort of a Dr. Frankenfurter homage instead of a Dracula homage?
DeleteI am looking forward to those write-ups! I only know a few things about Ravenloft (so it might actually be better in my head than in actuality), so no canonical arguments from my side, promise :)
ReplyDeleteAwesome. No worries, I just wanted to head any complaints of "but that's different from the books" off at the pass because that's the point of it all, heh.
DeleteIn regards to #3, there's a great story in Paizo.com's webfiction called "Blood Crimes" by J.C. Hay that has a world like this. Highly recommended, quick read, found here: http://paizo.com/pathfinder/tales/serial/bloodCrimes
ReplyDeleteI'm not terribly familiar with Ravenloft except in a very generic sense, so with that said...
ReplyDeleteThe notion of the Mists transporting folks all around seems very silly. But the idea of strange and terrifying supernatural mists is not. I once ran a campaign--based on an idea I shamelessly stole from a friend of mine who came up with it--where supernatural mists had risen up like some kind of out of control sea level, leaving the playable areas of the world just the high points--mountain tops, plateaus, tepuis, etc. The mist itself was full of demons and undead, and without some kind of protection, would gradually kill anyone exposed to it for too long. Trade routes were largely facilited by balloons and airships of various stripes.
Anyway... I think the idea of strange supernatural mist has merit beyond just being a bit of flavor. But I agree that the Ravenloft incarnation of them sounds really pretty lame.
I think I might have just the random table for using the Mists the way you're talking about, actually...
DeleteHaven't played Ravenloft for the past 13 years but still love it and I look forward to your remix. The mist as a transportation system was great back in the day tho' cause a lot of characters were from krynn and Stradh knows what. I used the mist to put the group together and was good for the fast transportation to new adventures - spooky and deadly but a great tool. One shouldn't us it to often tho so I agree with axing it a bit and open up the borders. Love your blog btw! ;)
ReplyDeleteAh, you know, that actually reminds me of something I should have had on my list: I want to think of Ravenloft more as a place where the players play natives rather than people from other planes who got sucked in. Thanks for enjoying my blog!
DeleteI like that idea much better. Ravenloft as some kind of "Purgatory setting" where people went to get stuck always felt like a strange affectation to me.
DeleteI, too, am a great fan of the setting, though, no player I've ever had has shown any interest in it.
ReplyDeleteI when I have used the setting, I had the mists sneak into the players dreams as they slept and it was understood that Ravenloft was some kind of alternate reality to which the players were being transported in order to accomplish a goal. Worked great for one-shots when one player couldn't make the game. The Book of Crypts was especially awesome for this. Note: The Book of Crypts contains no actual crypts.
Yeah, I remember being super disappointing that there were no crypts in Book of Crypts!
DeleteGroovy! We had some great times using Ravenloft in the 2e days, including my most successful divination attempt in an RPG with the tarokka deck from Forbidden Lore.
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing how much stuff they packed into Forbidden Lore. That's probably one of the box sets that TSR was losing money on.
DeleteI think The Mists can be a cool transportation medium, but the way I envisioned it (never actually put into practice in-game) was to use the mists as the Ravenloft instantiation of such spells as Teleport. Thus, travel through the Mists by players is by choice, and includes risks (mist encounters) that the more typical versions of the spells don't entail. It also allows for such things as "The Vistani begins a complex ritual and you see fog begin to rise around you."
ReplyDeleteHmmm, I quite like that as well.
DeleteWhat I read at the end there was "... Feel free to rip off these..."
ReplyDeleteThat is actually the correct way to read it.
Delete"If you can't figure out how to describe a bog-standard green dragon as a primordial horror from the heart of the unconquered pagan forest...you need to learn more words, son."
ReplyDeleteThis has got the be the coolest, most accurate piece of DM advice I've ever red!
Hah, thanks!
DeleteI dig it.
ReplyDeleteRavenloft (or rather, the idea of Ravenloft) deserved better. I prefer the idea of it actually being a campaign world instead of the off-shoot, float-y thing it sorta was. Annoying. Besides, Hammer fan that I am, I still like my stuff to be grimier....more Nosferatu, less Dracula.
-machfront
Agreed on all fronts.
Delete